1899 M38B (M96/38) Swedish Mauser Short Rifle
(Mfg by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of Milsurps.com moderator Claven2.
In 1938, the Swedish M96 long rifle had been in service for 42 years and the M94 cavalry carbine for 44 years. Despite the fact most of Sweden's European neighbors continued to deploy similar rifles, largely based on the similar Mauser 98 action, Sweden's artillery officers who controlled armaments development could not help but notice that the trend was towards a shorter, intermediate length rifle such as the German Karabiner 98k. The issue M96 long rifle, on the other hand, had more in common with the Gewehr 98 of the First World War than the sleeker and handier Karabiner. Additionally, the 1930's brought the concept of mechanized infantry to the forefront of military thinking. Troops operating from vehicles found the M96 too long and awkward to be practical, and the M94 was not available in great enough numbers given the number of weapons still required by the cavalry.
Swedish ordnance engineers came up with a cost effective alternative and in 1937 they adopted the M38 Swedish Mauser. The M38 was constructed by reconfiguring existing M96 long rifles. The barrel was shortened and the front sight base moved back to suit. The stock was also shortened and the front band spring and barrel band were accordingly moved back. The straight bolt handle was retained. Between 1938 and 1940, 55,080 M96 rifles were converted at the Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori, and under contract at Husqvarna Vapensfabriks AB.
By the end of 1940, the Second World War was raging across Europe. The Swedish government needed all available arms in the field in order to maintain her neutrality, by force of arms if necessary. The Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori in Eskilstuna was busy manufacturing machine guns and other weapons and so, in 1941, Husqvarna Vapensfabriks AB was given the contract to construct newly made M38 rifles instead of converting further M96 long rifles. The very first Husqvarna made M38 rifles had straight bolts, but the factory was already tooled up to make bent bolt bodies for their sporting rifles. Husqvarna asked for, and was given permission, to alter the specification and produce the vast bulk of their M38 rifles with bent bolt handles. By the end of production in 1944, Husqvarna had manufactured 65,588 new M38 rifles.
Modern collectors often refer to the early pattern converted M96 rifles as the M96/38. The Swedish military, however, made no such distinction. All M38 patterns were referred to simply as M38, regardless of manufacture or type of bolt body.
In 1941, the Swedish military adopted a new bullet for the 6.5x55 caliber rifle to replace the older round nosed M94 bullet. The new cartridge was called the M41 Torped (spitzer) round. The M38's made by Husqvarna were equipped with a new rear sight calibrated specifically for the M41 ammunition. Initially it was planned to convert the entire inventory of M38 rifles to the new pattern sight, but this initiative proved too expensive for the Swedish government. Instead, they chose to affix conversion plates to the rifles' buttstocks. The range plates came in two basic types for each pattern or issue rifle. An enameled metal plate and a water transfer decal painted over with protective shellac. Rifles sighted for M94 ammunition received a conversion plate for use with M41 ammunition, and rifles sighted for M41 ammunition were fitted with a conversion plate for use with M94 ammunition. Nevertheless, some converted M96 rifles were retrofitted with the M41 pattern rear sights but these are uncommon and most of these rifles retained their original M96 rear sights. Some M38 rifles can be found with a micrometer sight insert made of nickeled brass and manufactured by a company called Vasteras. These inserts are all calibrated for the M94 bullet and serve only to provide more accurate sight adjustment.
After World War 2, in the interest of improving sight picture, virtually all Swedish mausers had their rear sights altered from the original 'V' blade to a 'U' notch. Additionally, many rifles were retrofitted with a squared blade, replacing the older 'inverted V' blade. Rifles designated for use during training exercises were later modified by threading the muzzle to accept a blank firing adaptor designed to shred the wooden bullet training rounds then in use. Rifles threaded for the adaptor are often referred to as 'B models' (e.g. M96B, M38B, etc.). When the blank firing adaptors were not in use, the rifles were issued as normal, but with a yellow or clear nylon thread protector threaded onto the end of the barrel.
Collector's Comments and Feedback:
1.Swedish M38 rifles are often found in excellent condition. Additionally, the rifles can generally be located with matching numbers, though fairly often the rear sight leaf may be mismatched. Premiums may be payed for rifles with intact range plates or range decals. Decals and plates were installed upside down to make reference by the shooter easier during firing. If these items are not properly installed in the inverted position, it is a clear sign they have been tampered with. Some collectors prefer rifles which do not have threaded muzzles, but whether a premium should be paid for rifles without the B modification is a personal preference issue. While most M38's are found stocked in beech, converted M96's can often be found stocked in any of the woods used on original M96 rifles. Some rifles received parts matched with electro-pencil during late refurbishment efforts. Most collectors prefer the rifles with stamped matching serial numbers.
Most Swedish mauser parts will be stamped with a crown acceptance stamp. Level crowns indicate manufacture by Carl Gustafs, while crowns tilted at a 45 degree angle indicate manufacture by Husqvarna. Additionally, Husqvarna produced rifles will generally have fewer serialized parts than the converted M96 rifles made into M38's, where virtually all metal parts will bear the last three digits of the rifle's serial number.
Finally, while the earliest M96 long rifles had unit marking disks installed in the stocks, M38's would all have been made with the later bore condition type stock disks. The disks give the bore diameter in millimeters and the bore condition on a scale from 0 to 4. A '0' bore would be indicated by no markings on the bore condition portion of the disk. A '0' bore meant it was like new with absolutely no wear or damage. Bore remained in service after the condition deteriorated to conditions 1 through 3. At condition 4, the bore was significantly corroded or worn and the disk would be removed and the hole filled with red wax to indicate the barrel needed replacement.
Bore conditions:
0 - like new.
1 - one or a few dark areas in the corners between grooves and lands.
2 - Rust in the corners between lands and grooves, odd spots of rust in the grooves.
3 - spots of rust throughout the length of the bore, but no sharp edges on the rust patches.
4 - sharp edges between corroded and non-corroded areas. Such a barrel would be discarded and replaced. ........... (Feedback by 'Claven2')
2. Here is another 'all correct' example of an 1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle Serial # 23669, also converted by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori between 1938-1940.
This particular rifle is unique in that it was originally mfg in Germany uncer license as an M96 rifle by Waffenfabrik Mauser, Oberndorf a/N in 1899. Note: It is mounted with the 'T' (Torped) rear sight, which differs from the other example in this MKL entry.
1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle Serial # 23669
(Converted by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori 1938-1940)
'Originally mfg as M96 rifle by Waffenfabrik Mauser, Oberndorf a/N in 1899'
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle Serial # 23669
(100 picture virtual tour)
........... (Feedback by 'Badger')
Is your Ludwig Loewe-manufactured M/94 Swedish carbine fitted with a unicorn-hide sling?
(Mfg by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Chuck Hawks shares information about the Swedish Mauser Model 1896 in this full. It is apparently brazed to the bolt body, and carries a serial number that. Hi, I've got a Swedish Mauser M'96 Serial # OG 1332 and I'd like to find out. Brown you have to find this book for serial number chart, search.
Originally Posted by :
Caliber: ....................... 6.5 x 55mm .... Swedish Service Ammunition (click here)
Rifling & Twist: ............. 4 Grooves, Right Hand Twist, 1 in 7.5'
Barrel Length: .............. 23.1 in (587mm)
Overall Length: ............ 44 in. (1118mm) without bayonet
Weight: ....................... 8.5 lb (4.1Kg)
Magazine Capacity: ...... 5 round integral box
Qty Mfg: ...................... 55,080 m38's converted from M96 Long Rifles between 1937 and 1940
Source: ....................... Crown Jewels - The Mauser in Sweden by Dana Jones - ISBN: 0-88935-283-6
Canadian Collector Market Value Estimate: $
1899 M38B (M96/38) Swedish Mauser Short Rifle
(43 picture virtual tour)
Observations: (by 'Claven2')Caliber: ....................... 6.5 x 55mm .... Swedish Service Ammunition (click here)
Rifling & Twist: ............. 4 Grooves, Right Hand Twist, 1 in 7.5'
Barrel Length: .............. 23.1 in (587mm)
Overall Length: ............ 44 in. (1118mm) without bayonet
Weight: ....................... 8.5 lb (4.1Kg)
Magazine Capacity: ...... 5 round integral box
Qty Mfg: ...................... 55,080 m38's converted from M96 Long Rifles between 1937 and 1940
Source: ....................... Crown Jewels - The Mauser in Sweden by Dana Jones - ISBN: 0-88935-283-6
Canadian Collector Market Value Estimate: $
1899 M38B (M96/38) Swedish Mauser Short Rifle
(43 picture virtual tour)
Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of Milsurps.com moderator Claven2.
In 1938, the Swedish M96 long rifle had been in service for 42 years and the M94 cavalry carbine for 44 years. Despite the fact most of Sweden's European neighbors continued to deploy similar rifles, largely based on the similar Mauser 98 action, Sweden's artillery officers who controlled armaments development could not help but notice that the trend was towards a shorter, intermediate length rifle such as the German Karabiner 98k. The issue M96 long rifle, on the other hand, had more in common with the Gewehr 98 of the First World War than the sleeker and handier Karabiner. Additionally, the 1930's brought the concept of mechanized infantry to the forefront of military thinking. Troops operating from vehicles found the M96 too long and awkward to be practical, and the M94 was not available in great enough numbers given the number of weapons still required by the cavalry.
Swedish ordnance engineers came up with a cost effective alternative and in 1937 they adopted the M38 Swedish Mauser. The M38 was constructed by reconfiguring existing M96 long rifles. The barrel was shortened and the front sight base moved back to suit. The stock was also shortened and the front band spring and barrel band were accordingly moved back. The straight bolt handle was retained. Between 1938 and 1940, 55,080 M96 rifles were converted at the Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori, and under contract at Husqvarna Vapensfabriks AB.
By the end of 1940, the Second World War was raging across Europe. The Swedish government needed all available arms in the field in order to maintain her neutrality, by force of arms if necessary. The Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori in Eskilstuna was busy manufacturing machine guns and other weapons and so, in 1941, Husqvarna Vapensfabriks AB was given the contract to construct newly made M38 rifles instead of converting further M96 long rifles. The very first Husqvarna made M38 rifles had straight bolts, but the factory was already tooled up to make bent bolt bodies for their sporting rifles. Husqvarna asked for, and was given permission, to alter the specification and produce the vast bulk of their M38 rifles with bent bolt handles. By the end of production in 1944, Husqvarna had manufactured 65,588 new M38 rifles.
Modern collectors often refer to the early pattern converted M96 rifles as the M96/38. The Swedish military, however, made no such distinction. All M38 patterns were referred to simply as M38, regardless of manufacture or type of bolt body.
In 1941, the Swedish military adopted a new bullet for the 6.5x55 caliber rifle to replace the older round nosed M94 bullet. The new cartridge was called the M41 Torped (spitzer) round. The M38's made by Husqvarna were equipped with a new rear sight calibrated specifically for the M41 ammunition. Initially it was planned to convert the entire inventory of M38 rifles to the new pattern sight, but this initiative proved too expensive for the Swedish government. Instead, they chose to affix conversion plates to the rifles' buttstocks. The range plates came in two basic types for each pattern or issue rifle. An enameled metal plate and a water transfer decal painted over with protective shellac. Rifles sighted for M94 ammunition received a conversion plate for use with M41 ammunition, and rifles sighted for M41 ammunition were fitted with a conversion plate for use with M94 ammunition. Nevertheless, some converted M96 rifles were retrofitted with the M41 pattern rear sights but these are uncommon and most of these rifles retained their original M96 rear sights. Some M38 rifles can be found with a micrometer sight insert made of nickeled brass and manufactured by a company called Vasteras. These inserts are all calibrated for the M94 bullet and serve only to provide more accurate sight adjustment.
After World War 2, in the interest of improving sight picture, virtually all Swedish mausers had their rear sights altered from the original 'V' blade to a 'U' notch. Additionally, many rifles were retrofitted with a squared blade, replacing the older 'inverted V' blade. Rifles designated for use during training exercises were later modified by threading the muzzle to accept a blank firing adaptor designed to shred the wooden bullet training rounds then in use. Rifles threaded for the adaptor are often referred to as 'B models' (e.g. M96B, M38B, etc.). When the blank firing adaptors were not in use, the rifles were issued as normal, but with a yellow or clear nylon thread protector threaded onto the end of the barrel.
Collector's Comments and Feedback:
1.Swedish M38 rifles are often found in excellent condition. Additionally, the rifles can generally be located with matching numbers, though fairly often the rear sight leaf may be mismatched. Premiums may be payed for rifles with intact range plates or range decals. Decals and plates were installed upside down to make reference by the shooter easier during firing. If these items are not properly installed in the inverted position, it is a clear sign they have been tampered with. Some collectors prefer rifles which do not have threaded muzzles, but whether a premium should be paid for rifles without the B modification is a personal preference issue. While most M38's are found stocked in beech, converted M96's can often be found stocked in any of the woods used on original M96 rifles. Some rifles received parts matched with electro-pencil during late refurbishment efforts. Most collectors prefer the rifles with stamped matching serial numbers.
Most Swedish mauser parts will be stamped with a crown acceptance stamp. Level crowns indicate manufacture by Carl Gustafs, while crowns tilted at a 45 degree angle indicate manufacture by Husqvarna. Additionally, Husqvarna produced rifles will generally have fewer serialized parts than the converted M96 rifles made into M38's, where virtually all metal parts will bear the last three digits of the rifle's serial number.
Finally, while the earliest M96 long rifles had unit marking disks installed in the stocks, M38's would all have been made with the later bore condition type stock disks. The disks give the bore diameter in millimeters and the bore condition on a scale from 0 to 4. A '0' bore would be indicated by no markings on the bore condition portion of the disk. A '0' bore meant it was like new with absolutely no wear or damage. Bore remained in service after the condition deteriorated to conditions 1 through 3. At condition 4, the bore was significantly corroded or worn and the disk would be removed and the hole filled with red wax to indicate the barrel needed replacement.
Bore conditions:
0 - like new.
1 - one or a few dark areas in the corners between grooves and lands.
2 - Rust in the corners between lands and grooves, odd spots of rust in the grooves.
3 - spots of rust throughout the length of the bore, but no sharp edges on the rust patches.
4 - sharp edges between corroded and non-corroded areas. Such a barrel would be discarded and replaced. ........... (Feedback by 'Claven2')
2. Here is another 'all correct' example of an 1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle Serial # 23669, also converted by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori between 1938-1940.
This particular rifle is unique in that it was originally mfg in Germany uncer license as an M96 rifle by Waffenfabrik Mauser, Oberndorf a/N in 1899. Note: It is mounted with the 'T' (Torped) rear sight, which differs from the other example in this MKL entry.
1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle Serial # 23669
(Converted by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori 1938-1940)
'Originally mfg as M96 rifle by Waffenfabrik Mauser, Oberndorf a/N in 1899'
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle Serial # 23669
(100 picture virtual tour)
........... (Feedback by 'Badger')
This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Place of origin[edit]
If it was the German Empire as the time-period clearly suggests, the flag should link there as well.Alternatively, the current flag of Germany should be presented in spite of the historical error that would represent.BP OMowe (talk) 02:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Expanding article[edit]
Saw this listed on the project page as needing expansion. I have some nice pictures of a mint M38 short rifle, which so far has been neglected in this article. I will add them. Mr.trooper—Preceding undated comment added 01:47, 26 February 2011 (UTC).
Swedish Mauser page[edit]
This entire article is so full of errors it needs a complete rewrite. As well, the name of the factory where these rifles were built is spelled out on the rifle itself: Gustaf not Gustav. Aside from that its a very poorly written and unresearched page. I may make an attempt to do this page but I just don't have the time at present. --DutchSwedishMauser (talk) 14:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
- Perhaps you could give us some examples of the errors you've noticed? That way, other editors with a bit more time might be able to make a start on correcting them. --Commander Zulu (talk) 09:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
The most repeated error is the misspelling of Gustaf. Then in the 2nd paragraph: 'Both rifles were based on the Mauser action, but differed in being 'cock-on-closing'..' The problem is evident that the writer doesn't know anything about the subject matter. The 1896 action *is* a Mauser. It doesn't differ from anything. The writer's only other reference is the Lee-Enfield and K98k Mauser. Then: 'The Model 1896 (M96) rifle (6,5 mm Gevär m/96) was adopted by Sweden on March 20, 1896,'. No mention that production did not begin until 1898 for the m/96. And no mention at all of the 1895 Mauser Oberndorf carbine contract or the Swedish m/1894 carbines. Then: 'The M96 remained in production until 1938, when it was replaced by the M38 Carbine.' The m/96 ceased production in 1924. The m/38 is not a carbine, its a rifle, a gevär. Then: 'A number of M96 rifles were officially converted to M38 configuration, and are known as M96/38 rifles, to differentiate them from as-manufactured M38 rifles. All M38 rifles were manufactured by Husqvarna'. The 96-38 nominclature is American in origin. There was no distiction between the converted rifles and the purpose built Husqvarna rifles. Then: 'successfully transformed by Carl Gustav Arsenal'. Carl Gustafs stads Gevarsfaktori. The book cited is known to be so full of errors as to be nearly useless. 'Crown Jewels: The Mauser in Sweden' by Dana Jones is the only worthwhile book on the subject (my name is in it as a contributor). The entire composition of this article is just utterly useless, I'm sorry to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DutchSwedishMauser (talk • contribs) 16:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
In the sidebar: 'Waffenfabrik Mauser AG'. Should be Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf a/n. Where it says 'production history' and then 'designed 1896'. Designed is not production. Variants do not include the many variations of the 1894 carbine such as the 1901 school carbines, fortress carbines, gallery carbines, m/94 and m/94-14 differenciated. The stated muzzle velocity is incorrect for the m/96 rifle. The sights are 'iron'?? Actually they're steel but the description should be square post front and U-notch rear with a stepped ladder for elevation. Are you understanding now the degree of error in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DutchSwedishMauser (talk • contribs) 16:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
An example of an outstanding presentation.....[edit]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag-J%C3%B8rgensenThis is how the Swedish Mauser deserves to be presented. It should be used as a template for the Swede.DutchSwedishMauser (talk) 09:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DutchSwedishMauser (talk • contribs) 16:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Eary Swedish mausers manufactured by Loewe and DWM. IIRC Mauser manufactured no early 'Mausers', but merely designed them[edit]
Eary Swedish mausers were manufactured by Loewe and DWM. IIRC Mauser manufactured no early 'Mausers', but merely designed them. BTW, I personally own a '94 Swede carbine. Says 'Ludwig Loewe on the receiver, not 'Mauser'. Outsidedog (talk) 15:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Is your Ludwig Loewe-manufactured M/94 Swedish carbine fitted with a unicorn-hide sling?
'Cause no-one else has ever seen any such beast. Care to provide a photo of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.176.129 (talk) 03:26, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Errors and Repetitive Errors & Eroneous Information[edit]
The argument over Ludwig Loewe & DWM made Swedish Mausers is bogus. Loewe & DWM did NOT manufacture any Swedish Mausers. Outsidedog-- please send photos to swede1894 (at) gmail.com and I will help straighten this issue out. Yes, I am an expert on the subject.
'high grade tool steel' - BOGUS. Never has there been a Mauser military rifle made with high grade tool steel or any kind of tool steel. All Mauser bolt rifles were manufactured using low carbon steel with additional additives then the receivers were case hardened, not heat treated.
'Mauser produced 12.000 m/1894 carbines between 1894 and 1896 and Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori 115.000 m/1894 carbines between 1895 and 1933'
This above is incorrect. Mauser Oberndorf carbines were produced ONLY in 1895. Gustaf carbines were produced only between 1898 and 1932, non inclusive.
(under the m/96 section)'Mauser produced 40,000 m/1896 long rifles between 1895 and 1899,'
The above is incorrect. Mauser Oberndorf m/96 rifles were produced only in 1899 and 1900. Mauser Oberndorf carbines were produced only in 1895. The number produced is also incorrect.
'Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori 475,000 m/1896 between 1899 and 1936'
The above is incorrect. Gustaf m/96 final production was right about at 512,000 rifles. Production ran 1898 to 1924. Anomalous numbered rifles have shown up but regular military production ceased in 1924.
Please whoever included this incorrect data CORRECT it. I will make attempts at editing the Swedish Mauser page on a regular basis. DutchSwedishMauser (talk) 07:53, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
- I added those production figures (from a source listed among references). If you provide references for your production figures and years of production I will be glad to change them, otherwise not. As for m/94 the Swedish Ministry of Defense ordered 12,185 m/94's from Mauser, 5,000 in 1894 and 7,185 in 1895, with deliveries in 1895 and 1896 (Source: Die leichten schwedischen Infanteriegewehre Armee und Heimwehr, Carsten Schinke, Journal-Verlag Schwendt GmbH, 1990). According to the same source production of the m/94 at Carl Gustafs started in 1896. According to Schinke the highest known serial number for m/96's made by Mauser is #59,940, made by Carl Gustafs #517,277 and made by Husqvarna #702,083. But highest serial number doesn't equal production numbers. In Schinke's book (which is in German BTW) you will find a long list of serial numbers that are known to have been used, listed per year, showing that many serial numbers were not used (such as at Carl Gustaf, where the last rifle made in 1910 had serial number 269,312 and the first made in 1911 had serial number 280,693). Allan Akbar (talk) 10:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
- I can add that the image in the infobox shows a m/1896 that beyond even a shadow of doubt was made in 1896 since it's the m/1896 that was shown to the King of Sweden-Norway when the m/1896 was approved in 1896. A rifle which according to the Swedish Army Museum, where the rifle can be found, was made by Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori. Which proves that Carl Gustafs made m/1896's before 1898 as you claim. Allan Akbar (talk) 23:14, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Schinke's production numbers are incorrect. My own serial number database started in 1999 shows your 1910-1911 numbers are wrong. Schinke's serial number listings were taken from observed rifles, not Gustaf factory records. Schinke's book is simply out of date. My serial number data is from owner reports to me. I am the researcher and I am the reference. You do not have the research background to have 1st hand knowledge of the subject matter. I am a listed contributor in Crown Jewels by Jones and Mauser Military Rifles of the World by Ball. You can take Schinke's book and throw it out in the street. Crown Jewels by Jones is the only accepted authority on Swedish Mausers by collectors and researchers. As for Mauser Oberndorf m/94 carbine production you will note 1895 serial numbers run from 2 to 11887 which account for 11,885 carbines. There were none manufactured in 1894 or 1896. Gustaf m/94 carbine production shows serial number 179 as 1898. That is the lowest number we have so far. There are none dated prior to 1898. See Jones page 145.http://dutchman.rebooty.com/96swede.html
Your inclusions of photos from the Swedish online museum are a welcomed addition to this page. But please cease including data from Schinke's book or Poyer's woeful publication. Both are very poor and out of date. Make the corrections using Crown Jewels or your 1st hand knowledge or don't add anything at all. DutchSwedishMauser (talk) 09:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
- I suggest you do the changes yourself since Wikipedia is an open encyclopaedia where anyone can make changes, as long as they have proper references. Besides, you are the one who should be registered as having made the changes to the page since I don't want to assume responsibility for your changes. As for the rest one of the things that I have learnt during my professional/academical life is that the real experts within any given field never personally claim to be experts, but let their published work do the talking. So I suggest you relax a bit if you want to be taken seriously... Allan Akbar (talk) 11:03, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
Erroneous m/94 carbine information[edit]
In the m/94 carbine section:'(The preparatory production development at Carl Gustafs stads Gevärsfaktori found a place in history by being the event that caused Carl Edvard Johansson to invent gauge blocks).'
If the wiki page on gauge blocks had actually been read by the person who added the above sentence you would have seen this:
'Johansson was employed in 1888 as an armourer inspector by the state arsenal Carl Gustafs stads Gevärsfaktori [Carl Gustaf Stad's Rifle Factory] in the town of Eskilstuna, Sweden. He was concerned with the expensive tools for measuring parts for the Remington rifles then in production...'
The Remington rifles mentioned were rolling block rifles and had nothing to do with 'preparatory production development' of m/94 Mauser carbines. Please remove the erroneous information. DutchSwedishMauser (talk) 09:34, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
- I don't know who wrote that, it sure wasn't me. But I have removed it (it doesn't really belong in the article anyway...). Allan Akbar (talk) 10:51, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
UMMMM .... how incorrect can you manage to be in one short paragraph, DutchSwedishMauser? :-) Here are your errors: (1) I *have* read the information; in fact, I'm the one who contributed it to the gauge block article, with cited refs. (2) *You*, the one who complains about it not having been read, are the one who didn't read it. If you had read one sentence further than what you quoted, you would have learned that he was interested in metrology through the licensed Remingtons, AND THEN, as that article says in the very next sentence, 'When Sweden adopted a tailored variant of the Mauser carbine in 1894, Johansson was very excited about the chance to study Mauser's methods of measuring, in preparation for production under license at Carl Gustaf (which began several years later).' His visit to Germany and train ride home were part of preparing for production development for Swedish manufacture of the licensed Mauser. (3) The information is *not* erroneous. It is true, per the cited refs. (4) Your comment here is the thing that is erroneous. (5) There's no right or wrong on the question of whether a brief mention of it *must be excluded* from this article ... it's just an interesting piece of historical cross-reference. I believe the forced exclusion is *entirely unnecessary*. The cross-reference is interesting, in a trivia-sidebar kind of way. Most normal readers enjoy trivia-sidebar-type tidbits here and there. It's why they put them in high-school and college textbooks. Some Wikipedians are obsessed with excluding that type of content. I think it's a pointless obsession, but I'm too busy to haggle about it in this case. Let the baby have his bottle ... But I just had to reply here—your whiny diatribe against what I allegedly hadn't read was so silly when *you* are the one who hadn't read what I not only read but also wrote ... with cited refs no less! Please look more carefully before accusing next time! Cheers, — ¾-10 02:59, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
6.5x55 ammunition on stripper clip[edit]
I photographed a stripper clip of 1976 Norma 6.5x55 surplus, can somebody add it to the Swedish Mauser Wiki?
Thanks!
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:6.5x55mm_Swedish_surplus_ammunition,_produced_in_1976.JPG— Preceding unsigned comment added by Arielnyc2006 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
'Blank Firing Adapters' that aren't[edit]
The 'blank firing adapters' shown for the m/1896B and m/1938B rifles are safety devices, not BFAs as the term is normally used. As manually-operated repeating rifles, the Swedish Mausers do not use the gases produced on firing a blank cartridge to cycle the action of the rifle and load a new cartridge --- the function of BFAs in automatic and semiautomatic firearms --- instead these devices serve to break up the light wooden 'bullet' used in the blank cartridge and prevent it causing injury to other soldiers in a training environment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.108.53 (talk) 19:46, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
- There are several different types of blank-firing adaptors, as can be seen in the article about them, so the Swedish blank-firing adaptors for the m/96B and m/38B (with the Swedish designation lösskjutningsanordning, 'blank-firing device') do indeed qualify as blank-firing adaptors. Thomas.W (talk) 19:56, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Inaccuracy[edit]
There is no such a cartridge as 6.5x55mm. There are several cartridges of this dimension, but NONE of that name. A survey of the internet (2 goggle search pages) showed that 88% of references were about the 6.5×55mm Swedish Mauser cartridge with a few using 6.5×55mm Swede, and a similar number 6.5×55mm Swedish. This should be rectified.Digitallymade (talk) 14:43, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
The pages name is also inaccurate: Swedish Mauser is what a dog, a sausage, a book title? Saying the M1894 Swedish Mauser would make sense or Swedish Mauser Rifles would be better. Swedish Mauser itself is inadequate.Digitallymade (talk) 14:49, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Digitallymade: Your addition of the {{disputed}} tag to this article because of a link to 6.5×55mm is just plain silly, you not getting your way in your attempts to move that article to another name does not in any way make the content of this article disputed, the link here simply points to whatever name the article about the cartridge has. And the name of this article, which covers all variants of Swedish Mausers, from the m/94 carbine to the m/41 sniper rifle, is the result of consensus among editors here, so if you want to change it you'll have to start a proper move discussion on the talk page. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 15:19, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- you should endeavor to be accurate. There's no such a thing as a 6.5×55mm cartridge. You've used that reference in several places so putting the tag at the top is easier than noting each one. I fully expect the page for 6.5×55mm Swedish Mauser will be properly named at some point. If you wait, and if you've referenced the correct name it will probably automatically change. The request to merge the page resulted because of the improper name which appeared to be a cartridge, not a rifle. Failing to name pages properly is a common fault with firearms based pages. Inaccuracy causes such problems. Digitallymade (talk) 15:56, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- Wrong. Consensus among other editors here on en-WP is that there indeed is a cartridge that is commonly known as the '6.5x55mm', why is why the article has that name. You may have a different opinion, but unless you can convince other editors here that you're right, and get their support for a move, the name will stay the way it is. And the links will be the way they are. And the same goes for this article, consensus among editors here is that the Swedish Mauser rifles and carbines are commonly known as 'Swedish Mauser', which is why this article has that name. See WP:COMMONNAME for what we go by when naming articles, but don't forget that this is an international English language encyclopaedia, not an American encyclopaedia, so pointing to 50 US handloading manuals and US magazines, without also looking at what names are used among international English speakers is not going to get you any support. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 16:14, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- you should endeavor to be accurate. There's no such a thing as a 6.5×55mm cartridge. You've used that reference in several places so putting the tag at the top is easier than noting each one. I fully expect the page for 6.5×55mm Swedish Mauser will be properly named at some point. If you wait, and if you've referenced the correct name it will probably automatically change. The request to merge the page resulted because of the improper name which appeared to be a cartridge, not a rifle. Failing to name pages properly is a common fault with firearms based pages. Inaccuracy causes such problems. Digitallymade (talk) 15:56, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Regarding the ammunition for the swedish mauser there is quite comprehensive information available at the 6,5x55 page. And if the editors decide that their consent about the Name is more relevant than the designation used in Sweden, this is at least democratic.But there is a safety issue about the proper name of the thingVitavuori of Finnland changed its reccomendations and loads considerably in the last years, not advising the popular N140 for the 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser any more. They now recommend N150, N160 for safety reasons. They also define loads for 6,5x55 SE or 6,5x55 SKAN with a maximum pressure of 3800 bar. This does not exceed the proof mark set for the Swedish Mauser, but Vitavuori avises, not to use these loads in the traditional skandinavian military rifle systems.In contrast to the 98 Mauser the Swedish Mauser has a lower tolerance regarding excessive chamber pressure and 6,5x55 loads or maybe cartriges made for a Tikka might spoil the day of someone, who shoots them in the Swedish Mauser. These safety issues about pushing the Swedish Mausers to maximum pressure occured in the last years, there are lots of older loading data around and pushing up the camber pressure in an m96 is tempting as this tends to improve accuracy.I know that most of this Info is tncluded in the 6,5x55 article, but as this ammo issue is most relevant for the Swedish Mauser, I think the readers of this article should be informed that a load/cartrige for a modern 6,5x55 Hunter or sniper might not becadvisable for a Swedish Mauser or Krag and that there might be a safety issue when pushing the chamber pressure, even when according to older loading data max.As Vitavuori divides between 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser (safe for the Swedish Mauser, Krag etc) and the 6,5x55 SE, 6,6x55 SKAN (For modern hunting/sport rifle constructions) It might make sense to reflect this in the article.Maybe a serios advice, that there is relevant and recent information about safe ammo for the swedish mauser in the 6,5x55 article will do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enfield8 (talk • contribs) 12:01, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Swedish Mauser used in easter rising?[edit]
I was a surprised, when I read that the Swedish Mauser was used in the easter rising. Sweden was neutral then and i wonder if there were any Swedish Mauseres available outside Sweden. Only the Luxemburg m/96s might have been available to Germany. But Germany had tried to smuggle captured Mosins into Ireland and failed. I could not find any reliable source about m/96 in Ireland. But I read about the Mauser c/96 „Broomhandle“ automatic pistol used in substantial numbers by the Irish. They definitely used the Mauser designed Gewehr 71, several other obsolete surplus Rifles and loads of different hunting rifles. But was there any Sewdish mauser? Maybe someone got carried away by the „96“ and „Mauser“ of the Mauser c/96? Enfield8 (talk) 21:26, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Ludwig Loewe/DWM[edit]
I think „Mausers manufacturers“ does not descibe the company relations between Mauser and Ludwig Loewe /DWM properly.It reflects the misconception of Mauser as the biggest and most important small arms compamy of the German Empire.In fact the Mausers found it hard to sell their excellent designs and to finance the expansion of their company necessary to produce huge military orders.So Ludwig Loewe,who had excellent access to the german and varios foreign military markets and who was financially extremely viable, first became shareholder, then major shareholder of The Mauser company, Making it part of the DWM, which included several arms and ammunition companies in 1895.So I might suggest to call Ludwig Loewe/DWM the parent company of Mauser.. Enfield8 (talk) 10:13, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- This artice is about the Mauser design adopted by the Swedish Armed Forces in the 1890s only, not about Mauser and their relationship with DWM. And this talk page is for discussing this article only, not for discussions about other stuff (see WP:NOTFORUM), so any further irrelevant material posted here will be removed per Wikipedia's talk page guidelines. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 11:07, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
I am definitely discussing this article. Ludwig Loewe and DWM are mentioned as „Mauser Oberndorf‘s manufacturers“ who have produced spare parts for the Karabiner m/94. They were definitely not Mauser‘s manufacturers. In fact they as majority shsreholders decided, what they wanted to produce and what Mauser Oberndorf would produce.. So in this article Ludwig Loewe or DWM should rather be called Mauser‘s parent compamy., not its manufacturer. Enfield8 (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- The m/1894 carbines were designed by Mauser, and the initial batch was then produced by the Mauser factory in 1895, while some spare receivers were made by 'Ludwig Loewe & Company', also in 1895. Two companies that from a legal standpoint were entirely separate entities at that time, since DWM wasn't founded until the year after, i.e. 1896. So no, DWM wasn't Mauser's 'parent company' when the initial batch of carbines were made. - Tom | Thomas.W talk 17:56, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Come on, it was mot me, who wrote that Ludwig Loewe and DwM werde „Mauser‘s manufacturers. If there are DEM marked m/94 recievers atound, they were made ba mausers parent company, if they are marked Ludwig Loewe they were made earlier. But Mauser/Oberndorf had already been sold to Ludwig Loewe and Cie in 1887 by the Würzembergische Vereinsbank and Paul Mauser. In 1895 Ludwig Loewe was the Owner of Mauser Oberndorf. Paul Mauser was their emloye. They might have been amused id someone called them „Mauser‘s manufacturers. Enfield8 (talk) 20:51, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- You have to differentiate between people and companies, Loewe being majority owner of both Mauserwerke and Ludwig Loewe & Company does not make LL&C the parent company of Mauserwerke. Mauser didn't have a parent company until the shares of both Mauser and a number of other companies were transferred to Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken, when that company was founded in 1896 (see that article). - Tom | Thomas.W talk 21:09, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
I think I do differentiate. In 1887, when Ludwig Loewe and Cie bought Mauser, the Ludwig Loewe was dead. His brother Isidor was chairman of Ludwig Loewe and Cie. Not he, but the company bought Mauser. Enfield8 (talk) 21:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
The influence of Loewe and Cie, later DWM on Mauser can hardly be overestimated. The rise of Mauser to one of the biggest suppliers of firearms wordwide in the late 19th contire depended on the financial background and the excellent salesmanship of Loewe/DWM. Without this Muuser Oberndorf might not habe survived long enough to submit a design to the sewdish military. When the Würtembergische Vereinsbank decided to sell their majority share of Mauser Oberndorf to Ludwig Loewe and Cie, forcing Psul Mauser to sell his minority share too, this was a wise decision. Paul Mauser was an excellent designer, but after his brother Wilhelm had died in 1882, the company suffered from poor salesmanship and continuous financial problems. Ludwig Loewe and Cie sow the excellence of Paul Mauser as a designer. It was them, as new owners, who pushed the sales and fixed all the major contracts of the 1890s, including the swedish contracts. Enfield8 (talk) 19:11, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Retrieved from 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Swedish_Mauser&oldid=927204285'